By Marylou Barry
When the Hebrew prophet Isaiah wrote his biblical account some 2,700 years ago, he relayed a prophecy God had given him about the destruction of Damascus, Syria. He couched nothing in ambiguity.
“See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid … though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines, though on the day you set them out, you make them grow, and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud, yet the harvest will be as nothing in the day of disease and incurable pain … In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us.” – Isaiah 17:1-2, 10-11, 14, NIV.
So, if I am reading this correctly, somewhere between planting and harvesting seasons in some unnamed year, someone is going to annihilate Damascus, Syria, with its million-plus population, in an overnight raid? The harvest will be “as nothing”? The attack will be “sudden terror” with survivors experiencing “disease and incurable pain”? Aroer (unclear, but possibly Jordan) will be likewise afflicted? Before the morning “they are not”? This information has been out there for over two millennia and NO ONE IS PAYING ANY ATTENTION?
In the several English-language Christian and Jewish Bible translations I consulted, the wording of Isaiah 17 varies little. Descriptions conjure up fears of not just sudden destruction and possible radiation sickness, but also of Saddam’s still-unaccounted-for WMD’s rumored to be stored in Syria. WHY, I wondered, would any believer choose to live in the only city of undisputed identity whose destruction is guaranteed in writing by the Judeo-Christian God?
Damascus was around before Abraham and still touts itself as the oldest continuously occupied city in the world. Despite Syria’s majority Islamic government, 10 percent of Damascenes (160,000) still identify themselves as Christians, although only 1 percent of those (1,600) claim to be evangelicals. A still tinier Jewish population remains – fewer than 100 souls nationwide as of 2003.
With one burning question, I decided to contact the U.S. offices of the major Christian denominations in Syria and see what they had to say. In emails to the Greek Orthodox, Syriac Catholic, Maronite, Byzantine Catholic, and Syriac Orthodox churches, I wrote:
In reading Isaiah 17, I see that the city of Damascus and some of the surrounding areas will be destroyed one day in what appears to be an overnight nuclear attack. The fact that the city has never been completely destroyed in its 4,000-year history leads me to believe this event is still in the future.
My question is, why do members of your church, who presumably believe the Bible, continue to live there when they know this is going to happen? Are they financially unable to move? Do they have a different interpretation of this prophecy than the very obvious one? Very briefly, what is your church’s position on this? Any short comments you would like to add would be greatly appreciated.
Of the five recipients, only one, a representative of the Byzantine Catholic Church, even bothered to respond. In a friendly and courteous tone, he explained his belief that Isaiah 17 had already been fulfilled.
“Damascus has been destroyed a few times, I think,” he wrote.
As proof, he quoted the Jerome Biblical Commentary, a publication of the Roman Catholic Church with which the Byzantine Catholic Church is in full communion. The Jerome commentary, he said, states that:
“threats against Aram [Note: Syria] and Israel should be seen in relation to the coalition that threatened Judah at that time [and that] this provides the background for 7:1-8:4.”
Meanwhile I searched for clues about what happened to Damascus in 732 BCE, the only occasion I could find of a major attack on the city. Here is what I discovered:
”Believed to be the world’s oldest continuously inhabited city, it has evidence of occupation from the 4th millennium BC … Tiglath-Pileser III King of Assyria (r. 745–727 BC) … defeated his northern neighbour, Urartu (743 BC), then subjugated Syria and Palestine (734) and took over the throne of Babylon.” – Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9380758)
“Syria suffered (11th–6th cent. B.C.) long invasions and intermittent control by the empire of Assyria. Babylonian conquerors also found success in Syria … The Syrians were subjected to massacres, plundering, and forced deportations. The king (Tiglath-Pileser III) defeated Urartu and became master of Syria. Appealed to by Ahaz, king of Judah, for assistance against Pekah of Israel and Resin of Damascus, he responded by defeating Ahaz’s enemies and capturing Damascus”. – Information Please Almanac (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0861413.html)
“Damascus is one of the world’s oldest continuously inhabited cities … In 732 BC Damascus was conquered by the Assyrians, under Tiglath-pileser III (r. 745–727 BC).” – The History Channel (http://www.history.com/encyclopedia.do?articleId=207058)
“In 732 Tiglath-Pileser defeated the Aramean-Israelite coalition, and Aram, including Damascus, was divided into Assyrian provinces, collectively known as Aram Naharain (See 744–727). This was the effective end of Aram as a political entity, although the Aramaic language subsequently became the lingua franca of western Asia and replaced Hebrew as the spoken language in Palestine.” – Bartleby’s Encyclopedia of World History (http://www.bartleby.com/67/106.html)
“Ahaz meanwhile summoned the aid of the Assyrians; and the new policy finally led to the conquest of Damascus by an Assyrian army in 732 B.C. (II Kings xvi. 9). Concerning the city and its inhabitants during a period of 200 years there is no information. According to I Kings xx. 34, a quarter of the city was assigned to the Ephraimitic merchants. II Kings xvi. 10 et seq. mentions an altar in the city, of which Ahaz ordered a copy to be made.” – The Jewish Encyclopedia (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=21&letter=D&search=Damascus)
So, what I draw from all this is that, while Syria was subjugated, invaded, controlled, and mastered; and Syrians were massacred, plundered, and deported; Damascus itself was only captured, conquered, and divided into provinces. At very least an altar was still standing, and a quarter of the city was assigned to merchants.
What would merchants have wanted there if everything had been reduced to “a heap of ruins”? Where would they have found shelter? What would the stench have been like? Who would have gone there to shop? How would the merchants, their customers, and the altar-copiers have functioned if everything had been destroyed and there were no groceries or supplies? How could so many lives have been ended and so many structures demolished in one night without the use of aircraft, artificial lighting and modern weapons?
I wrote the Byzantine spokesman again with this information and asked if he could provide any evidence, beyond St. Jerome’s opinion, that Damascus had ever been destroyed. That was weeks ago and he has not responded.
But life, as always, goes on. An estimated 1,600,000 residents of Syria’s capital alone – including 160,000 Christians who claim to believe what the Bible says – wait in the shadow of doom, apparently comforted by the false assurance that danger has passed when it really may be just beginning.
Iran continues exporting weapons for others to use in another proxy war, just as it did in Iraq and Lebanon II. And its proxy deception will work again, setting up Syria and possibly Jordan to take the hit that rightfully belongs to Iran. Ezekiel 38 and 39 clearly indicate that Iran will be still be around to lead the even bloodier future “Gog” invasion of Israel, a prophecy from which Syria and Jordan are inexplicably – and eerily – absent.
So, if the historians are wrong and the ancients simply forgot to record an earlier destruction of the Syrian capital, the civilian residents of Damascus may come through just fine. When all this is over, scaremongers like me will owe them an apology, as will the careless historians – now conveniently deceased – who omitted this crucial event from their writings. If the historians are wrong, a tragedy for the people of Damascus will have been averted and they can all have a good laugh at what will have proved a faulty exegesis.
But may God have mercy on them if the historians are right.
January 29, 2007 at 9:23 pm |
http://www.appointedtimeministry.com
My Christian friend has begun a website that will hopefully get more people praying.
Also, hopefully we Christians will keep the Holy Spirit working through the Christian Churches…
is there any more that we can do? I’m wondering?
We can keep the door to Salvation open…but again
this can only be done if the Holy Spirit remains working through us?
January 30, 2007 at 5:12 am |
In the great Tsunami of December 26th 2004, people watched the water recede and then advance with vengance.
They calmy stood still until the water took them away.
Only after watching others being swept away did they make a move to save themselves.
They watched, they saw, but they did not believe that they were in danger until it was too late!
So it shall be in Damascus, and so it shall be on the Earth!
Jesus Christ is coming back, He told us to be faithful to watching and waiting in expectation, lest we are not prepared. He told us directly and through parables. The warning is in the bible for anyone to read and heed.
Some will, many won’t.
So Be It!
January 30, 2007 at 6:56 am |
You write about the judgment of God upon Damascus as though it is to be a future event when Isaiah said that it shall be a ruinous heap please understand this took place under the kings of Assyria, and particularly under Tiglath-pileser. This was in the fourth year of Ahaz as is recorded in 2 Kings 16:9 “So the king of Assyria heeded him; for the king of Assyria went up against Damascus and took it, carried its people captive to Kir, and killed Rezin.”
Damascus was a city given to idolatry. God purposed to destroy it. Your first error is that you write as if it is to be a future event here in 2007. Secondly who are you to think for a moment that God has no right to destroy a people that have forsaken Him. Isa 17:10-11 “Because you have forgotten the God of your salvation, and have not been mindful of the Rock of your stronghold, therefore you will plant pleasant plants and set out foreign seedlings; in the day you will make your plant to grow, and in the morning you will make your seed to flourish; but the harvest will be a heap of ruins in the day of grief and desperate sorrow.”
There is coming a day when Christ shall come again and the whole world will melt with fervent heat. Would you hope to keep that from happening? The Apostle John’s response was “Even so come Lord Jesus”. And I am sure your response would be the same but I write thus to point out the following.
This attitude evidences the great error of Dispensational Theology. They are more concerned about the “temporal” and the “physical” than the eternal. Damascus will be destroyed at the Second Coming of the Lord, but our message to them should not be, “Why do you continue to live in Damascus?” Rather, repent and place your trust in the work of Christ.
This should also be the message to the Jews today. One should not be encouraging them to rebuild a temple which God Himself destroyed. One should not be encouraging them to restore animal sacrifices that were but a type pointing to Christ and were fulfilled by our Lord and therefore rightly brought to an end. Our prayer for and message to Israel today should be the same message Peter proclaimed on Pentecost, “Repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.” Christ alone can save them not some red heifer.
May those of Dispensational thinking begin to think God’s thoughts after Him and not their foolish thoughts of deceptive and damning error. Remember the Jews who rebuild the temple and worships by use of a cow will spend eternity in hell. The Jews who repent of their rebellion against the Most High and place their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ will reign with Him forever.
You are sending a wrong message. Your concern is in the wrong place. May God awaken you and give you an understanding of sound Biblical faith.
Wesley Brice, Pastor
Grace Reformed Church
Northwest Arkansas
January 30, 2007 at 8:26 am |
Good article Marylou.
I was reading your observation re Iran at the end of your article. You refer to Ezekiel 38 and 39, accordingly Iran’s military capabilities should increase not diminish for a future “Gog” invasion
If so all the effort by America to nuke Iran, will some how will be frustrated.
Regards
Sam
January 30, 2007 at 8:57 am |
Given what scripture says about interpreting scripture on your own . . .
Acts 8:29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless some one guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2 Peter 3:15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
. . . why would you discount the response of the Byzantine Catholic Church? They are part of the only church on earth founded by Christ who gave them the authority to teach in His name.
1 Tim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
Matt 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
(hint: this church has a web site — it’s http://www.vatican.va )
God bless.
January 30, 2007 at 9:13 am |
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January 30, 2007 at 10:13 am |
Marylou,
I found your blog very refreshing. I have aded you to my BlogRoll. I hope you don’t mind.
Tom
January 30, 2007 at 10:30 am |
I think the question here is not so much the problem as the reading of this chapter.
It begins as an oracle concerning Damascus, and speaks of desolation and famine. But it also says a ‘gleaning’ will be left. If we look at the spiritual meaning of that word, we would see this as hope remaining for salvation — as God always provides for His people; because Jacob (Israel) is mentioned as suffering part of that, God never abandons His people.
The evidence comes in verse 7, wherein men will regard their Maker and look to the Holy One of Israel. But in the midst of this regard, remains desolation. Many will suffer, but some not as much because they regard the Lord and look to Him.
The pastor who responded did not really address the “deserted for ever” quality of this message, except to indicate he believe that will be fulfilled when Christ returns and then destroys Damascus. That isn’t what it says, so he needs to be careful, in his criticism, to be accurate in his assessment of what God, speaking through Isaiah, really means. He cannot; he can only speculate. And the “foolish thoughts” language, disparaging dispensationalism, did not further his argument. However, let us continue…
In verse 10 it is picked up again that the people have forgotten everything, even the God of their salvation. As a consequence of their forsaking God, their crops will fail, obviously because of some cataclysmic event that happens between sunset and dawn. Is it literal? You tell me. Sometimes these things are, sometimes they seem to happen overnight, but really take a bit of time. So perception of the people involved often is a big factor. But, it could still be literally in one night.
So we have some regarding their Maker, and possibly others — not necessarily the same people — forsaking God and returning to their flesh nature. This is indeed the case in any place you visit; some people are holy to God, others are profane. Saints and sinners live together in any society.
Remember, too, verse 9 says, “In that day…”, which theologians generally accept the meaning to be ‘a time far off’, often the End Times. But, remember also that this is not always 100% the case. Context matters, remember.
Then we see that the nations of the world will thunder and roar (like the mighty waters) loudly, which would seem to indicate outrage. And such outrage, if that is what it is, doesn’t often come as a result of natural disaster, only after a horrible man made event, such as would occur after a nuclear strike.
This outrage could be in response to the inevitable tragedy that innocent women and children are victims of this possible attack. It could be because the very thought of using nuclear bombs is so abhorrent, particularly to the every more placating and conciliatory European and American Left Wing ‘peace at all costs’ movements.
Jesus told us that we know the signs of the seasons, but do not understand the signs of the times. He also said many ‘in that day’ would be crying ‘Peace, peace’ when there is no peace. I think you would agree, in a time where there seems only perpetual war (regardless of your political views and accusations), this ’sign’ is a very convincing bit of evidence of the times in which we live.
However inaccurate the article, or my view, may be, the greater point is that as Christians we are supposed to be alert for signs and portents that may indicate the times in which we live as being the very time just prior to the rise of Antichrist, the return of our Lord and Saviour.
Those on guard will not be caught unawares. Those who are diligent will have full lamps, trimmed wicks and stores of oil. They who dismiss as errant, seeming to indicate that the soon Return is not so soon, but may yet be far off, risk finding their lamps empty and their wicks sputtering, and with no time to go purchase new oil.
The deeper question is not is the author correct, the deeper question is that if she is correct, are we as true believers ready? Do we regard our Maker and look to the Holy One of Israel, Christ Jesus, as our Lord and Saviour?
And second to that, if these things be true, are we speaking out about the hope that only comes through salvation in Christ Jesus to the people in our lives, known and unknown alike? If not, why? If you believe we are living in the Last Days, why are you silent? Do you not want those people to obtain their salvation, the free gift of God through His Son, Christ Jesus?
You should.
January 30, 2007 at 11:59 am |
I am in total agreement with you on Isaiah 17. As a teacher of biblical history, and End-time prophetic events,we see the church in the same state of condition as Israel and the Jewish leaders were at the first coming of Jesus Christ. Heresy and apostacy were rampant, Rome was in control and an antichrist king was ruling in Israel. Yet there was a remnant that was faithful to God, saw the signs, knew the biblical text and were looking for their Messiah. History is about to repeat itself as the return of the Jewish Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ, draws ever near.
In response to the statements made by Pastor Brice of the Reform Church concerning a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, it would do him good to go to our web site http://www.newgateminisries.com, click on the button “Jerusalem Chronicles” and read my article on “The Coming Rebuilt Temple”.
W.L. “Sonny” Payne,
President, New Gate Ministries
January 30, 2007 at 12:47 pm |
Or we might heed the advice of many who suggest that start a serious dialouge with our enemies in the Middle East. Let us work to prevent the worst fears among us.
January 30, 2007 at 12:57 pm |
I guess that the most people that develop weapons, and destroy the world, and establishing wars as much as possible is only Israel, and who has thousands of nuclear weapons I guess You know,
I do hate Iran as much as Israel, but Syria has nothing to do with all of this.
thanks so much
January 30, 2007 at 12:57 pm |
I guess that the most people that develop weapons, and destroy the world, and establishing wars as much as possible is only Israel, and who has thousands of nuclear weapons I guess You know,
I do hate Iran as much as Israel,
but Syria has nothing to do with all of this.
thanks so much!!!!
January 30, 2007 at 1:06 pm |
If all of these Christians were to flee the coming attack who will be there to teach and advise the un-belivers of Jesus Christ? Please remember death has no sting to us. We are saved by the blood of Christ and the grace of God. We have no need to flee a coming holacost. If we die we go to heaven. We just need to be workong for Christ until the end.
January 30, 2007 at 1:45 pm |
Hate Israel, “mfadel?”
“I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” (Genesis 12:2-3)
Not smart to hate Israel, my friend. Not smart at all. The one thing that I caught in that verse in Isaiah was “this is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us.” Destruction awaits those who would have Israel looted and destroyed. Not smart to be on that side of things. Give this a rethink.
January 30, 2007 at 1:52 pm |
Ken,
Amen! We are not called to run away from spreading the gospel when we face death. This is how the church started and grew early on.
Marylou-
Great article. Thanks for causing us to look to the future in a world that looks ever more increasingly like the world described right before Christ’s return.
January 30, 2007 at 3:13 pm |
It is worth comparing the Isaiah passages with the prophecies against Damascus in Amos, Jeremiah and Zechariah. All four prophecies clearly have an end time fulfilment.We should remember that the Hebrew approach to prophecy is one of repeated patterns, thus Joseph is a type of Christ as are Moses and David. ‘The cities of Aroer’ is unclear as the texts have suffered in transmission. The translators of the RSV, JB and NEB follow the Septuagint in translating that section as ‘forever desolate’ or similar. This event, of course, has not happened and nor has governing power left Damascus(vs3).
As to the means of destruction, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by earthquake and eruption resulting in the enlargement of the Dead Sea and the reduction of the fertile plain. Nuclear weapons are not needed and we should pray that they are not used.
We are called to repentance and belief in the Word of God. Since the recreation of Israel, itself a fulfilment of several prophecies, Syria has directly attacked Israel three times. One more attack would trigger the Amos prophecy pattern. Almost certainly, it would trigger the others as well.
Why do believing Christians live in Damascus and not warn the inhabitants thereof?
January 30, 2007 at 3:50 pm |
I find your interpretation of Isaiah 17 consistent with mine.
My chronology of the end-times wars is kicked off with the destruction of Damascus.
Pslam 83 and Exekiel 38 and 39 are a description of the Muslim world and Russia’s response.
Daniel 11 talks about how the antichrist fills the vacuum after the destruction caused by Ezekiel 38 and 39.
Revelation 16 talks about how the kings of the east march against the antichrist.
Revelation 16 and 19 take us to Armageddon.
I would not weant to be in Damascus right now iether.
January 30, 2007 at 4:04 pm |
In response to this: “What would merchants have wanted there if everything had been reduced to “a heap of ruins”? Where would they have found shelter? What would the stench have been like? Who would have gone there to shop? How would the merchants, their customers, and the altar-copiers have functioned if everything had been destroyed and there were no groceries or supplies?”
And MOST ESPECIALLY this: “How could so many lives have been ended and so many structures demolished in one night without the use of aircraft, artificial lighting and modern weapons?”
I respond thus: “Ask the Carthaginians.”
That, and you really need to brush up on exactly what apocalyptic literature is all about before attempting to interpret or understand these kind of prophecies.
January 30, 2007 at 5:03 pm |
In Inhalations 4:20 is it thusly written:
For sooth sayeth the LORD I shall pass thee on your left.
For thy unicorns shall be begotten of Techoriah, begotten of Shegoliah, by way of Abrabiah; and thy fortune shall be made.
…Or words to that effect.
January 30, 2007 at 5:14 pm |
Interesting post. Though I would disagree about Iran being the most likely perpetrator of such an act. There are a number of shrines in and around Damascus, including that of John the Baptist, that are holy to the Muslims and especially Iranians.
January 30, 2007 at 5:43 pm |
I don’t think Muslims show much of a respect for their own people and supposed holy sites, since we see them attack pilgrims and shrines with abandon. They burned a number of jewish holy sites too (Rachels tomb i believe was one?), and yet given how much islam stole theology from Judasim, you’d think they’d at least pretend to care about those.
Anyway, if there is a war (nukes or not), I sure hope that it doesn’t happen while I’m there in 2 weeks
January 30, 2007 at 6:15 pm |
brilliant!
i hope you don’t mind if we link you in the future?
the Lord has layed this prophecy on my own heart for the last three years or so. i’ve been out looking for affirmation. thank you.
January 30, 2007 at 6:47 pm |
Santa will come again from the north and bestow coal amongst the evil and candy and toy amongst the pure.
January 30, 2007 at 8:35 pm |
I know ONE middle eastern Christian who doesn’t go to Damascus! My husband worked with him here in the states, and often talked with him on end time prophecies. After he visits home, he makes sure to tell my husband that he didn’t visit Damascus.
January 30, 2007 at 8:50 pm |
I WANT TO LINK UP TO YOU. THIS MARVIN
January 30, 2007 at 8:51 pm |
MAY God bless your ministry.
January 30, 2007 at 10:33 pm |
RC&ME “OUR” Father. . .
“Could you not watch with me one hour?” “Behold what manner of Love the Father has given unto us, that we should be called the Sons of God.” “Your mercies and compassions are new every morning.” “Watch and pray”
http://www.ourprayerjournal.spaces.love.com
“I must be about our Father’s house.” (business)
“My house shallbe called a house of prayer for all NATIONS!”
January 30, 2007 at 11:43 pm |
I agree with Deke Rivers: dialogue can go a long way; build bridges, not walls. Jason displays woefully little understanding of Islam when he says: “I don’t think Muslims show much of a respect for their own people and supposed holy sites, since we see them attack pilgrims and shrines with abandon.” Funny, history tells us that Muslims, Christians and Jews co-existed peacefully before the imposition of the statet of Israel and many Arab countries protected Jewish populations. Iran/ Persia still does, with an estimated 40, 000 Jews living there.
January 31, 2007 at 2:25 am |
My friend and sister in the Lord, Nanc, e-mailed me this article. She has been warning about Damascus for a long time. My concerns have been more general, but a very good exposition on this section of the Word, thank you!
I’m bookmarking you.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
January 31, 2007 at 5:14 am |
True believers realize God will move them from harm’s way if it is His will, or remove them with less pain and consternation as He pleases. If nuking is coming my way, I want it to hit my house directly while we all are asleep. No?
January 31, 2007 at 8:34 am |
“Remember the Jews who rebuild the temple and worships by use of a cow will spend eternity in hell.” Wesley Brice.
I find this statement quite troubling. The Jews also have their own set of scripture that teaches them such things. When these traditions are passed down and the scripture they have teaches them to be humble followers of God, how can you as a “Christian” and knowing the Bible, believe that simply having possession of more scripture is a license to pass final judgment upon anyone? If their heart is truly sincere and they are trying to do what they feel is right, then how can you say that God will show them no mercy? When we make statements like that we are in danger of damnation ourselves.
Think back to the time of Noah when he was prophesying to the people and calling them to repentance. Yet in 1 Peter 3:19&20, we can see that even those who did not listen to Noah were preached to in spirit prison. They were disobedient to the commandments and still God brought his Gospel to them in spirit prison.
The truth is that we are each responsible for every last word, whether spoken out loud, written, typed or merely pondered in our minds. We were given power to judge right from wrong, not to judge the salvation of others. While the scriptures do tell us that certain behaviors lead to our own damnation, in no way do we have the capacity to perfectly know an individual’s circumstances.
Luke 12:48
If all they know is animal sacrifice and they never once have an honest chance to hear the true Gospel of Christ, then wouldn’t sending them straight to hell without any chance for mercy go against the merciful nature of God? If Luke 12:48 is incorrect then God is an unmerciful God and Jesus suffered for nothing. The lack of unity among Christianity is staggering. How are people supposed to believe in Christ, when the very people who claim to be servants of Him can’t agree on anything and are constantly bickering and telling everyone they are going to hell? So who will be held accountable for that?
January 31, 2007 at 5:46 pm |
Dear Friends, This is very interesting.
Have you considered the prophecy of
(Isa. 19:23-25)?
February 1, 2007 at 11:29 am |
Well, it seems that ignoring Scripture is a going trend in the church these days. Add to that an increasing disdain for prophecy among clergymen, and we’ve got big problems. They’re more in tune with building prayer labyrinths, coffee bars, growing goatees and tattooing themselves than they are dealing soberly with God’s Word.
February 1, 2007 at 12:42 pm |
I agree with Daniel’s assessment above.
Damascus was once a Christian city and is now the home to at least 11 terrorist groups’ headquarters. It is now a city that is dominated by the followers of Allah. This may explain some of the lament by God Himself regarding its destruction in the language that indicates past fealty to Him. God NEVER takes pleasure in the death of the wicked not to mention the under age people that suffer when such calamities happen. God laments that the city is not “abandoned” what we in modern times would call “evacuated.” Israel has already warned that damascus will be destroyed if the Jews in Tel-Aviv are hit by WMD missiles from Syria. It is no wonder God wishes they would have “abandoned” the city if they knew what would happen. I take all of this from the sentiments found in the Isaiah 17 and Jeremiah 49 passages.
I have long thought the Isaiah passage about Syria will precipitate Iran and Russia leading a UN “Coalition of the Willing” (ala Persia and Magog in Ezekiel 38,39) to deal with what they will characterize as “that out of control rogue state of Israel.” America has set the precedent! They will cite Israel as having violated many more UN Resolutions than the 17 that got Saddam in trouble. If Israel has to deal harshly, with the thousands of guided missiles (not just “rockets) that Syria has positioned from the Golan to Damascus which are mostly aimed at Tel-Aviv, the whole world will howl as the Isaiah passage says they will. Who can doubt this will be the response? Given the retreat from the Middle East that now seems to be on the acsendency in American politics it would seem to parallel the predicted diplomatic inquiry of the West (”merchants of Tarshish”) and the Saudi Arabians (Sheba and Dedan) that are found in the Ezekiel passages.
When we are commanded to “watch” in Scripture it doesn’t mean we are to walk outside and stand staring at the skies with our mouths open! We are to intelligently search the scriptures for those passages that deal with things that are predicted and have NOT been fullfilled yet. It drives me crazy to hear the “superspiritual” (nearly gnostic) types say that they will agree that Bethlehem was the literal obeject of prophecy in the real historical world regarding Christ’s first coming but then turn around and say the Zechariah passage about the Mount of Olives splitting at His Second Coming is just to be understood in a metaphorical or analgous way since its “just apocalyptic language.” These types will have to give account to the Holy Spirit that inspired these words for not taking them seriously and for doing violence to their plain meaning. I have been to Bethlehem, the Mount of Olives and Mount Zion (which they also love to “spiritualize”) for that matter and all of them are literal places where one can scoop up a handful of very historically real dirt!
Bottom line; I would not like to be living heedlessly in Damascus! If we care about people we should warn them. If they refuse to listen or are presuppositionally without the needed “ears to hear” then we should pray for them. It is an amazing time to be living in when you are a serious student of the Bible and a believer in the One Who inspired it.
February 1, 2007 at 8:20 pm |
Scripture and prophecy can be interpreted any number of ways. It seems to me that in being used in service of the bellicose neocons/ theocons, any number of abuses are wrongly justified. Are we forgetting Christ’s central message? I’m a Christian, and not a right-wing one politically, and there are many of us who are dismayed by this highly subjective reading into holy biblical texts to justify war and calamity and destruction of innocents. Are we so piously looking for scriptural “signs” and quoting the Gospel unctuously that we suspend our common sense and awareness of the central tenets of Christianity? Why is Christianity being wielded as a weapon, rather than a message of peace, understanding and hope?
The following article comments upon this on a scriptural basis and how prophecy is being hijacked for political purposes, which may interest some of you:
‘Gog and Magog: The false prophetic underpinnings for war’
February 1, 2007 at 8:29 pm |
This too might interest you about Iran, in contradistinction to some of the propagated claims.
What Iranians Want Americans to Know about Iran
by Douglas M. Johnston
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/diplomacyandreligion/johnston-whatiranians.shtml
September 11, 2001
1. There were no Iranians or Shiite Muslims among the attackers on 9/11.
2. Iran was the first Islamic country to condemn the 9/11 attacks.
3. Iran cooperated with U.S. and coalition forces to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.
4. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban have never been friends of Iran, and Iran has never funded or supported either group. Arab countries supposedly friendly to the U.S. have provided major sources of funding for both.
Regional Context
1. Iran is a Shia Persian country in a hostile Sunni Arab neighborhood.
2. Iran has been a victim of Arab extremism. More than 250,00 Iranians died in the Iran-Iraq war when the U.S. and other western countries were supportive of Saddam Hussein. Nearly every family in Iran lost someone in the war. In proportion to the population, Iranian casualties exceeded U.S. casualties in WWII. The West, including the U.S., did nothing to prevent Saddam from using weapons of mass destruction against Iran. In fact, many Iranians believe that western nations helped Iraq obtain the chemical weapons that were used against them.
3. The Wahhabis, a radical Sunni Muslim sect that works closely with the Saudis, hate Persian Shia Muslims more than they hate American or Jews. Wahhabis, who are funded by the Saudis, are exporting their radical brand of Islam throughout the Muslim world even to the Balkans and the United States.
Security Concerns
1. Iran’s neighbors, including Russia, India, Pakistan and Israel, all have nuclear weapons and effective delivery systems.
2. Israel is estimated to have between 100-200 nuclear weapons and has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that Iran is criticized for violating.
US–Iranian Relations
1. The majority of Iranians living today do not remember the Shah.
2. The Iranian people do not hate the United States. The large majority, especially the young people, want a better relationship with the U.S., but Iranians will unite to defend their country against any foreign attack, just as they did during the Iran-Iraq war.
3. The U.S. may have felt humiliated when the U.S. embassy was seized in 1979, but no Americans were killed by their Iranian captors.
4. Democracy in Iran may not be perfect, but they do have competitive elections for their president and for the 290 seat Unicameral Islamic Consultative Assembly (or Majlis). There is more democracy in Iran than in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt — all staunch U.S. allies.
5. The U.S. and Iran want stability in Iraq and Afghanistan.
6. The U.S. needs Iran to assist in the Middle East with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lebanon. Iran needs the U.S., but has lived without the U.S. for more than 25 years.
February 2, 2007 at 5:46 am |
Much in the pro-Iran email above from peoplesgeography can be stretched to make sense if you are speaking about many of the *students* in Iran, and not its religious and political leadership. But the post was about Syria. Responding to a few other comments, I didn’t read any musings in this post about Syria that endorsed any theonomy or theocracy or neocon positions or even dispensational theology per se. Does any question of future prophetic significance automatically qualify one as a dispee? If so I guess I’m one.
I *do* have a friend (a close friend) who is purposefully living in Damascus and he is aware of this prophecy and he believes it will happen and that it has not happened yet. He is not a dispee. He is there for the purpose of aligning his life with the old poem by C.T. Studd that goes something like this: “Some want to live their lives within, Sound of church and Sunday bell. I want to run a rescue shop, within a single yard of hell.” Pray for him and for those like him. Would that we had a similar zeal in cross cultural linguistic gifts and evangelistic zeal, even in challenging contexts.
Should this happen soon is God obligated to spare my friend or any of us from the fallout (pun intended) of His judgment of nations, this side of heaven? No he isn’t but our final status in not dependent on how our current bodies die. Can he spare such? Lot and his family come to mind.
Jonah went to a nation and an urban context that had previously been prophecied would bite the dust by Obediah. The judgment did happen. But it happened after Jonah’s time because the city from the people right on up to the ruler did in fact repent and turned to Yahweh the God of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures in saving faith in response to His word spoken through Jonah who (in this case) didn’t even *like* the people at all and very much wanted a different outcome.
I think God may allow some to stay if it is not for their personal preferences and prosperity and security sake but for the sake of reaching some who may believe. Ezekiel is quoted by others here and in chapter one and two of that book he is led by God to prophecy to people he was told in advance would NOT in fact listen. In that context, those people were Jewish. God speaks. His word is true. His gospel is powerful. He is sovereign over history and nations. Thanks comment numbers #13, 15, 33, 34, or Mary Lou, Ken, Scott, Joel, and Kevin.
February 2, 2007 at 6:42 am |
I tend to think that some in this discussion let their secular political views govern how they view Scripture. I note especially a prior remark where dispensational theology seems to be linked with neo-conservative politics. That is a canard, and not even historically accurate. Dispensationalism was around long before neo-conservatism.
Having said that, I have found myself growing more and more conservative the more I delve into Scripture. Those who call themselves “left-wing” Christians seem to have a disdain for Scripture. If they can’t deal with a passage that runs counter to their political causes i.e. gay rights, they either re-interpret the passage or impugn its authority in modern life. I would love to see someone exegete this passage of Scripture:
A wise man’s heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man’s heart directs him toward the left (Ecclesiastes 10:2).
Probably shouldn’t read modern politics into that passage, but I do think it’s rather appropo.
February 2, 2007 at 8:30 am |
In response to Pastor Brice:
Hello Brother.
Much against the advice of one of the other posters here who knows me, I have moved towards a more Amil-Reformed view of the Holy Scriptures regarding eschatology.
Despite my moving away from the Pre-Mil view, it is quite clear to me that the actions described in Isaiah 17 include a complete destruction of Damascus are still unfulfilled.
To hold that all of the OT prophecies have been fulfilled would be saying that the clear words of God were not fulfilled completely. I am not referring to the apocalyptic language used such as the, “The Moon and the Stars fell” or “The mountains fell”. I am referring to clear words such as:
“See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid … though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines, though on the day you set them out, you make them grow, and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud, yet the harvest will be as nothing in the day of disease and incurable pain … In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us.” – Isaiah 17:1-2, 10-11, 14, NIV.
This destruction is not described using swords or spears or arrows or catapults. No time markers are given either. What we do know is that they were lovers of God for a time. Now they are not. We know that Damascus will NO LONGER be a city. It has a sound of finality to it.
As far as the temporal comment, I know very few modern-day Ammils who perform evangelism with the same fervor as the Pre-Mils.
I agree with my Pre-Mil brothers and sisters that something may be soon on the horizon regarding Damascus.
February 2, 2007 at 10:28 am |
I feel it is important to mention that the heart of so-called “dispensationalism” is a love of God Who in turn loves of the people of Israel. He said they are loved for the sake of their fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ro 11:28 tells us: “From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers”. Jeremiah makes it clear that they will never cease to be a nation before God. Jer 31:36 “If this fixed order departs From before Me,” declares the LORD, “Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever.” Jeremiah also makes it clear that just because they are disobedient they will never be disinherited! This flies in the face of Replacement Theology that is part and parcel of Amillenialism! Jeremiah 31:37 says: “Thus says the LORD, “If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.
The claims of premillenialism is based on being pro-Israel and the promises that have been made to them i.e. that they would be back in the land, (see Zech 14 and Ezekiel 36, 37) have their Messiah, Yeshua of Nazareth, rule from Jerusalem from David’s throne and then enjoy a thousand years of Messianic rule over the nations of the world. Unless you want to call Gabriel a liar you must deal with the fact that Mary mother of Yeshua (Jesus), was told He would inherit the throne of David. Lu 1:32* “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.” This has NEVER HAPPENED but it will! David’s throne did not exist in Yeshua’s earthly life, and does not even yet, but it will in the future. David’s was an EARTHLY THRONE IN JERUSALEM! It will not do to say that Gabriel was only referring to a His Heavenly Father’s throne in Heaven! That is simply NOT what Gabriel said! It is provocative that there has been a Sanhedrin reconvened in Jerusalem (first in about 1700 years) and they have pinpointed a man who is a Davidic descendent capable of re-establishing the Jewish Monarchy. The fact the Bible predicts a time when Jerusalem shall be the capital of Earth firmly establishes the premillenial position. The unfulfilled prophecy about the very literal temple/throne described extensively in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 also shows the need to believe in a future millenial rule of Jesus.
The 1,000 years of Messianic rule are clearly shown in Revelation 20: 5* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6* Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7* When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Speaking of the Israelite Messiah’s rule of the earth the Apostle John speaks:
Re 12:5* And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
I write this in this blog because there does seem to be more than a hint of anti-Israelism or anti-Semitism in some who have commented here. If you believe the Bible in its plain language you will be premillenial and, therefore, pro Israel. If you play hermeneutical games you can dodge the need to be contrioversial in this antisemitic world. If you have the courage that comes from God you can be pro-Israel.
February 2, 2007 at 11:27 am |
I feel it is important to mention that the heart of so-called “dispensationalism” is a love of God, Who in turn, loves the people of Israel. He said they are loved for the sake of their fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ro 11:28 tells us: “From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers”. Jeremiah makes it clear that they will never cease to be a nation before God. Jeremiah 31:36 “If this fixed order departs From before Me,” declares the LORD, “Then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever.” Jeremiah also makes it clear that just because they are disobedient they will never be disinherited! This flies in the face of Replacement Theology that is part and parcel of Amillennialism! Jeremiah 31:37 says: “Thus says the LORD, “If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.
The claims of premillenialism are based on being pro-Israel and the promises that have been made to them i.e. that they would be back in the land, (see Zech 14 and Ezekiel 36, 37) have their Messiah, Yeshua of Nazareth, rule from Jerusalem from David’s throne, and finally enjoy a thousand years of Messianic rule over the nations of the world. Unless you want to call Gabriel a liar you must deal with the fact that Mary mother of Yeshua (Jesus), was told He would inherit the throne of David. Lu 1:32* “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.” This has NEVER HAPPENED but it will! David’s throne did not exist in Yeshua’s earthly life, and does not even yet, but it will in the future. David’s was an EARTHLY THRONE IN JERUSALEM! It will not do to say that Gabriel was only referring to a His Heavenly Father’s throne in Heaven! That is simply NOT, what Gabriel said! It is provocative that there has been a Sanhedrin reconvened in Jerusalem (first in about 1700 years) and they have pinpointed a man who is a Davidic descendent capable of re-establishing the Jewish Monarchy. The fact the Bible predicts a time when Jerusalem shall be the capital of Earth firmly establishes the premillenial position. The unfulfilled prophecy about the very literal temple/throne described extensively in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 also shows the need to believe in a future millenial rule of Jesus.
February 2, 2007 at 11:30 am |
I feel it is important to mention that the heart of so-called “dispensationalism” is a love of God, Who in turn, loves the people of Israel. He said they are loved for the sake of their fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ro 11:28 tells us: “From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers”. Jeremiah makes it clear that they will never cease to be a nation before God. Jeremiah 31:36 “If this fixed order departs From before Me,” declares the LORD, “Then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever.” Jeremiah also makes it clear that just because they are disobedient they will never be disinherited! This flies in the face of Replacement Theology that is part and parcel of Amillennialism! Jeremiah 31:37 says: “Thus says the LORD, “If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.
The claims of premillenialism are based on being pro-Israel and the promises that have been made to them i.e. that they would be back in the land, (see Zech 14 and Ezekiel 36, 37) have their Messiah, Yeshua of Nazareth, rule from Jerusalem from David’s throne, and finally enjoy a thousand years of Messianic rule over the nations of the world. Unless you want to call Gabriel a liar you must deal with the fact that Mary mother of Yeshua (Jesus), was told He would inherit the throne of David. Lu 1:32* “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.” This has NEVER HAPPENED but it will! David’s throne did not exist in Yeshua’s earthly life, and does not even yet, but it will in the future. David’s was an EARTHLY THRONE IN JERUSALEM! It will not do to say that Gabriel was only referring to a His Heavenly Father’s throne in Heaven! That is simply NOT, what Gabriel said! It is provocative that there has been a Sanhedrin reconvened in Jerusalem (first in about 1700 years) and they have pinpointed a man who is a Davidic descendent capable of re-establishing the Jewish Monarchy. The fact the Bible predicts a time when Jerusalem shall be the capital of Earth firmly establishes the premillenial position. The unfulfilled prophecy about the very literal temple/throne described extensively in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 also shows the need to believe in a future millenial rule of Jesus.
The 1,000 years of Messianic rule are clearly shown in Revelation 20: 5* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6* Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7* When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Speaking of the Israelite Messiah’s rule of the earth the Apostle John speaks:
Re 12:5* And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
If you believe the Bible in its plain language you will be premillenial and, therefore, pro Israel. If you play hermeneutical games, you can dodge the need to be controversial in this anti-Semitic world. If you have the courage that comes from God, you can be pro-Israel.
February 2, 2007 at 6:44 pm |
My response to Reverand Kevin Johnson:
Hello Brother Kevin,
I do stand with you in regards to Israel.
Since Romans speaks of Election and all believers are elected by God. Romans 11:28 is also speaking of Election, the Jewish Elect. Not all of Israel are Israel (Romans 9:6), only those chosen by God. And Romans 4:16 reminds us that we are all decendents of Abraham. It seems that God chooses those with whom he loves and sets apart, whether Jew or Gentile.
Is not the context of Jeremiah 31:31-37 speaking of the New Covenant which is salvation by grace through faith in the atoning work of Christ? If yes, then Israel the people are united and also the branch that starts the church. So how does that equate to Replacement? Through out history, Jews have come to a saving knowledge of Christ, And a step further, it is quite clear that a national conversion of Israel is in the future (Romans 11:25-32). Which means, those elect (believing Jews) have been, are being, and will be again grafted into the Church. Israel was the beginning, has been throughout, and will be the end of Church history.
I see no reason that Amil’s can’t be Pro-Israel. It would seem that those who are not Pro-Israel have other issues in their belief system to deal with. Perhaps it is as simple as unbelief cloaked in orthodoxy.
According to Matthew 2:2 Herod knows Jesus as “King of the Jews”. Matthew 2:6 calls Jesus the ruler who was to come. Christ said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36) Pilate declares Christ as King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37). I believe that Jesus already is on the throne of David in Heaven at the right hand of the Father.
Why is another physical temple needed? Doesn’t the Ezekial passages discuss blood sacrifices in this temple? Why the need? To make atonement?
Ezekial’s temple is a picture of the New Covenant under which the church, made up of believing Jews and gentiles, is the temple. See 1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:21. Jesus turned his back on the temple in Matthew 23:38. His temple is made with living stones 1 Peter 2:5.
Again, I do stand with you in support of Israel because many of them were God’s chosen, are His Chosen and will be His chosen.
Shalom
February 3, 2007 at 11:01 pm |
When Jesus spoke of His kingdom not being of this world he was speaking of the world system that “lies in the hand of the evil one” and it won’t be in Satan’s hands when He returns to rule! 1Jo 5:19* “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”
In answer to all who would build a straw man case about a future temple in Jerusalem, I offer the following:
It is important to realize that those informed students of Scripture, who believe that there will be sacrifices in the future millenial reign of Christ, do not see ANY animal, incense, libation or grain offerings/sacrifices to have EVER been efficacious in the final atonement for sins. We also, in like manner, reject wine and bread as a sacrifice but use it only as a memorial. The “need” for the offerings, therefore, is not a salvific one.
Isaiah1:11 “What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?” Says the LORD. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.
Heb 10:4* For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Offerings in the Old Testament were simply a foreshadowing of the future sacrifice of Christ. The still future ones will be simply memorial commemorations that show respect for that which has been accomplished in the past by the then ruling Monarch Yeshua (Jesus). The bread and wine serves this function until He returns.
The Scriptures refer to more than one thing as a “temple” including Jesus referencing His own body as the temple of God at the same time as referring to Herod’s Temple as His “Father’s house”. The Hebrew word for house is used for the temple. None of the Church/temple or body/temple references negate the predicted future temple in Jerusalem.
To read about the future promised to physical Israel, one only has to turn to passages like Zechariah chapter 14:17-21. None of this passage, which alludes to the future Messianic era promised to Israel, has happened at any time in the past:
17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
20 In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.
The Scriptures refer to more than one thing as a “temple” including Jesus referencing His own body as the temple of God at the same time as referring to “Herod’s Temple” as His “Father’s house” or temple. The Hebrew word for house is used for the temple. None of the Church/temple references negate the predicted future temple.
Something has to be sacred before it can be defiled or desolated by that which is unclean. Thus, the future “abomination that makes desolate” that Jesus predicts must happen in a Temple considered by God as a sacred structure. The Lord describes the future abomination as standing in “the holy place” which can have only one meaning in context of the whole Bible as the Holy of Holies on a rebuilt Temple of God standing on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Therefore, the temple that is thus desecrated is one that is recognized by God. Again, this is equally true of the temple that Jesus called His “Father’s house,” which was expanded by the evil King Herod. The disciples understood the term “abomination that makes desolate” as it was already in use in reference to Antiochus Epiphanies offering a swine on the Temple alter before the birth of Christ. I suggest for a complete understanding of this, one should read the current book about the Temple by Dr. Randall Price on Harvest House Publishers. I would also urge those who are Reformed in their theology to study the eschatology of Calvinist Dr. John MaCarthur.
Here are Five Promises Contained In The Abrahamic Covenant:
1. “To you and your descendants [plural] I will give the land of Canaan — from the river Nile to the river Euphrates — for an ‘everlasting’ possession.” (Gen 12:7; 13:15; 15:19; 17:8)
This applies to all (but only) the flesh descendants of Abraham through Isaac and then Jacob.
2. “I will make you a great nation, and multiply you exceedingly, and bless you so.” (Gen 12:2; 13:16; 17:2) This applies to all (but only) the flesh descendants of Abraham through Isaac and then Jacob.
3. “I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you.” (Genesis 12:3) This applies to all the families of the earth.
4. “Through your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, for I will make you the ‘father’ of a multitude of nations.” (Genesis 12:3; 17:5; 22:18) This applies to all the families of the earth, through the singular Seed Paul mentions in Galatians 3.
5. “The One who comes from your own flesh, (this Seed) shall be your Heir.” (Genesis 15:4) This applies to the singular Seed Paul mentions in Galatians 3.
The above on the Abrahamic Covenant from Yephiah.com
February 5, 2007 at 11:03 am |
Re: DAVID’S THRONE:
One more thing, the throne of David was, and is, a very historically and Biblically understood subject. Unless you are an anarchist when it comes to language, (insisting it just means whatever you say it means because you want it to) words have objective not subjective meaning. There are times when symbolic metaphor and allegorical language is used in the Bible and it is plainly understood when it occurs. This isn’t one of those times.
Mary, of the household of David, being a Jew living in the first century would have understood what Gabriel said to her when he referenced David’s throne. He was referring to the future Messianic era where David’s throne would be restored to Israel and Israel would then be the head and not the tail of the nations. De 28:13 “The LORD will make you the head and not the tail, and you only will be above, and you will not be underneath, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I charge you today, to observe them carefully,
Gabriel would have known how Mary would understand his words and was not unrighteously trying to mislead or misdirect her thoughts. The restoration of the Israeli throne of David (Israel’s kingdom) was VERY important to all righteous first century Jews. The disciple’s of Jesus understood things in this way in Acts 1:6* “So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” This would have been the perfect occasion for Jesus to set them straight that the Throne of David would only exist in Heaven and that they shouldn’t wait or anticipate that there would be an earthly epochal return of power to Jerusalem in the form of David’s throne. Instead he said something quite different in the next verse Acts 16:7: He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority. ” Jesus obviously knew what definitions they were using and said something that was very easily understood in the context of a future Messianic reign from the throne of David IN JERUSALEM ISRAEL! The throne and kingdom of David was already an established and historically well-defined entity when the prophets of Israel, Gabriel and the disciples spoke of it. It is completely arbitrary to insist that it MUST be in heaven.
King David is mentioned by name in the description of the future temple. He is said to live in the temple precincts. David, of course would already be resurrected in the Messianic Era and he would be ruler of Israel under The King of Kings Who rules over the Earth. There is NOTHING that would lead you to believe that Ezekiel’s temple, so minutely described in chapters 40-48, is just symbolic of the church. It simply will not work!! It also presents an unnecessary stumbling block to Jews in that it is arrogant to demand an interpretation that is so foreign to them when it is NOT demanded by the Holy Spirit saying so in the New Testament. The Holy Spirit commands us that we NOT be arrogant to the Jews in Romans Chapter 11!
Just because an unrighteous gentile ruler like Pontius Pilate, called Jesus “The King of the Jews” it doesn’t equate to Him sitting on “the throne of His father David” fulfilling Gabriel’s promise. Pilate rightly said Jesus was the King of The Jews in order to mock and perturb the Pharisees. Herod certainly didn’t move over and let Jesus sit on his throne ruling over Judea! That still wouldn’t have been a fulfillment since David’s throne, by historical definition, existed over a sovereign Israel that controlled its own affairs and borders.
No, Yeshua or “Jesus” (His Christian nickname) will rule over a very sovereign and secure Israel when He returns to rule over the rest of the nations of the Earth during the Messianic Era. This is also known as the Millenial Reign of Christ. This will be when the nations will “beat their swords into plowshares.” The nations (which will still exist) will need those plows in order to use the rain Yeshua will send them when they present their offering in Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles each year.
Isa 2:4 And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.
Mic 4:3 And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations. Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.
February 5, 2007 at 2:13 pm |
Isaiah 17:1
“The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.” (KJV)
“See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins.” (NIV)
Note the permanency of this statement. Taken away, no longer. If given plain meaning this means never again. Has this already occurred and if so how is it now a city?
De 18:22
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Isa 46:11
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Eze 24:14
I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Is Isaiah a prophet? If not why then do we even have him in our Bible?
If the Lord has spoken it then it will come to pass no matter what man proposes.
I agree with one of the comments that people can become too temporal but it should not be lost that they can as easily be too eternal.
Jas 2:16
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
It is easily forgotten living in this flesh which keeps getting more rundown by the minute that now is very much part of the eternal. WE ARE NOW IN ETERNITY. Are they really separable as the other commentator suggested?
Agape
August 13, 2007 at 6:28 pm |
Whether or not these things should happen as talked about due to interpretation or divine appointment we need to remember 1 Corithians 12:1-31. No matter the discussion, our hope is through the blood of Jesus Christ. There is no other! We also need to remember that we have been told that no one not even I know only the Father. So when we hear of these things let us not try to convince one another that our view is the correct one, but let us look to the heavens with outstretched hands and praise on our lips and wait together for our Lords coming!